Thema: WtF Teaser - Diskussionen

[Selganor [n/a]]

Odin, du verwirrst mich ...

Ich find's einfach nur schade, dass es jetzt Gauru heisst.

Gauru ist die Bezeichnung fuer den "Crinos", die Werwoelfe selbst heissen jetzt in ihrer Sprache "Uratha"

Diese Sprache ist wohl fuer WtF komplett neu gemacht worden (und der Developer bezeichnet sich selbst als "Experten" darin).

Ist auch Thema der Teaser dieser Woche:


MONDAY JANUARY 3

Speaking In Tongues: This week we look at the First Tongue, the language of werewolves and spirits.

The First Tongue is the ancient language spoken by all spirits — and, as legend would have it, by all mortals before the fall of Pangaea. Most werewolves have a remedial, instinctive understanding of the First Tongue and can learn greater fluency from any werewolf who knows the tongue or any spirit that agrees to teach. Although the First Tongue dialect that werewolves speak is not quite the same as the spirits’ dialect — it is adapted by necessity to their mouths and throats — it is close enough that spirits and werewolves can easily understand one another.

A First Tongue Lexicon (Part 1):

Hisil: The Shadow Realm, the spiritual reflection of the physical world.

Uratha (oo-RAH-thah): Werewolves.

Uremehir: The First Tongue

Urfarah: Father Wolf

[Raphael]

Und noch stärker als bei Vampire: the Requiem stelle ich sublimale Parallelen zu Laurell K. Hamiltons Vampir & Werwolf - Stories fest! "Ulfric" war bei ihr der Alpha-Wolf. Ich kann nicht mit dem Finger drauf zeigen, aber irgendwie... ist es möglich, dass deren Geschichten in Übersee so ein Erfolg waren, dass die Developer sich bei ihr bedienen, um noch mehr verkaufen zu können? Oder ist das jetzt schon paranoid?

[Odin]

Wahhh
mein schlechtes Englisch.
( Umverzeihung bettelt)

Habe gedacht es wäre die Fortsetzung nach dieser Globalen Katastrophe.

Hmm anderer Standpunkt.....
Sollte mir das nochmal alles durch den Kopf gehen lassen.

Was die Sprache betrifft.
Ist die jetzt komplett erfunden? Indianisch wäre cool gewesen immerhin
Latein war ja in WtA.

[Selganor [n/a]]

Also von Uratha auf Ulfric zu kommen scheint mir weit hergeholt. Oder wie kommst du drauf?

@Odin: Ja, komplett neu (wenn auch IIRC aus mehreren "alten" Sprachen zusammengestellt)
Und nein.... WtA war kein Latein. Das war/ist in Ars Magica

[Raphael]

Hm, "Indianisch" gibt es ja nicht, da hätten sich die Developer für eine von zwei schlechten Varianten entscheiden müssen:

a) man nimmt Suh (Sioux) oder eine beliebige andere Stammesprache und verärgert damit die Anhänger der anderen Stämme (nicht zu vergessen deren Mitglieder)
b) man mischt wild drauflos (wie bei Kindred of the East / Kinder des Lotos mit Japanisch und Chinesisch) und verärgert damit die Puristen (mich zum Beispiel).

Allgemein wollen sie ja von der ethnischen Zugehörigkeit der Werwölfe abrücken, Rassissmussklagen drohen.

Selganor: Ja, das war die Verbindung die ich gesehen hab. Wie gesagt, eindeutig ist es nicht. Markanterweise spricht aber Ms. Hamilton im Vorwort stets von den "Alternate Historians", die ihr geholfen hätten. Klingelt da was bei dir? Du bist da tiefer in der Materie als ich.

[Odin]

Lupus Lat= Wolf

Deus ex machina = Was der Herr sagt wird geschehen

hmm also etwas Latein war schon Vorhanden.

Was ist das für eine Magie dingsda sprache? Auch erfunden?

Der letzte Grand Prix hat da echt was los getreten!

[1of3]

Ars Magica ist ein Rollenspiel. Es handelt sich quasi um das Vorgänger-Spiel von Magus: Die Erleuchtung.
Für AM gibts hier sogar einen Channel.

In W:tA war sogar eher mehr griechisch als Latein: Philodox, Theurg, Gnosis, Epiphanien.
Gut Umbra & Penumbra sind noch Latein.
"Deus ex machina" dagegen ist tatsächlich ein stehender Begriff im allgemeinen Sprachgebrauch und hat mit deiner Übersetzung eigentlich gar nichts zu tun.

[Odin]

Norm sprach gebrauch?

Also ich habe diesen Satz noch nie benutzt.
Bin über ihn gestolpert als ich das Werwolf Regelwerk gelesen habe.

Frage zu Atagonisten. Wer ist der Feind der Gauru?

[Selganor [n/a]]

Der mit dem sich der Uratha gerade so sehr angelegt hat dass er in die Kampfform Gauru wechselt...

Nochmal: WtA <-> WtF
Garou - Uratha
Crinos - Gauru

Konkretes zu den "Feinden" der Werwoelfe ist IIRC noch nix gesagt worden (ausser wohl verschiedene "ueble" Geister). Vampire scheinen aber (zumindest nach VtR) nicht mehr der "Pflichtfeind" zu sein...

Deus Ex Machina bedeutet woertlich "Gott aus der Maschine" oder auch eine ploetzlich auftauchende Loesung eines bisher unueberwindlichen Problems. (Mehr unter dem Link zur englischen Wikipedia. Deren Artikel ist etwas ausfuehrlicher als das deutsche Gegenstueck)

[Selganor [n/a]]

Die naechsten Teaser:

The First Tongue is available to werewolves in all five of their forms, but to differing degrees. In human form, their mouths cannot clearly form the more challenging growls or subvocalizations, so enunciation isn’t perfect. In the near -human and wolf-man forms, First Tongue speech is much easier. In the near-wolf form, the Uratha can’t use human speech at all but can use First Tongue with limited facility. Finally, in wolf form, Uratha can use the First Tongue somewhat. (Anything more complex than “Follow me” or “Danger ahead” requires a successful Manipulation + Expression roll.)

Lexicon (Part 2):

Hishu (hih-shoo): The human form of a werewolf.

Dalu (dah-loo): The humanlike, yet animalistic form of a werewolf.

Gauru (guh-roo): The half-human, half-wolf war form of a werewolf, which carries with it the burden of Rage.

Urshul (ur-shool): The bestial wolf-like form of a werewolf.

Urhan (ur-hahn): The wolf form.

[Selganor [n/a]]

Und noch was vom Developer selbst:

"Gauru" may not be instinctive, but I would bet money that "Guru" — pronounced "guh-roo" or "guhr-oo", in accordance with the "ur" sounds of Urhan, Urshul and Urfarah, and not "goo-roo" like the far more common word — would have caused infinitely more confusion. And the "Garou" spelling wouldn't have fit the First Tongue, nor would a "Garu" variant.

The thing about the First Tongue, though, is that it's largely optional. For people who want to use it a lot, it's there — but the only things for which you really are expected to use First Tongue terms instead of English (or whatever) are the stuff for which English doesn't have convenient terms for anyway, like form names. The word "Uratha" is used throughout the core book, but not nearly as frequently as "werewolf" or "werewolves." The spirit world is called the Hisil, but usually as "the spirit world," "the Shadow Realm" or simply (as most werewolves would be inclined) "the Shadow."

The main issue, of course, is that we wanted all the specialized not-English terminology to come from one place: not a mix of French (Garou, metis), bastardized Latin (Glabro, Crinos, Hispo), less bastardized Latin (homid, lupus), obscure English (Galliard, Ragabash), Gaelic (brugh, fomori), and made-up stuff (Ahroun), to say nothing of the mishmash that was Fera terminology. In a few cases we bent the First Tongue rules to become their own things instead of following the original patterns, mostly when devising mnemonics (like the similarities of the auspice names to the previous auspices); tweaking our own rules to make it easier, not more difficult.

So I stand by the inclusion of the First Tongue over the loaded terminology of W:tA because it gives greater consistency. And as I say, there's maybe a dozen terms that you might use every session, and they're pretty easy to learn; read the book, make a sample character, and use makes it easy. There's more than a dozen terms for people who enjoy using them, of course, but most werewolves aren't going to be casually slipping First Tongue words into ordinary human-talk just to sound exotic.
__________________
Ethan Skemp
WWGS

[Raphael]

Das sind allerdings gute Argumente. 

[Selganor [n/a]]

Naechster Teil:

Many Uratha see the First Tongue as primarily a convenience for communicating across forms, but werewolves truly utilize it in negotiations with the denizens of the Shadow Realm. The First Tongue is the native tongue of all spirits, so any form of spirit communication (and certainly any diplomacy) takes place in the First Tongue. All werewolves understand enough to figure out whether a spirit is asking a question, making a threat or pleading for mercy, but actual discussion requires greater fluency. At least one dot in the Language Merit (First Tongue) is required.

Lexicon (Part 3):

Cahalunim (kuh-hall-oo-nim): The choir of Lunes tied to the gibbous moon; patron spirits of the Cahalith. Also, the Fertile Choir.

Elunim (ell-oo-nim): The choir of Lunes tied to the half moon; patron spirits of the Elodoth. Also, the Cloven Choir.

Irralunim (ir-rah-loo-nim): The choir of Lunes tied to the new moon; patron spirits of the Irraka. Also, the Moonless or Silent Choir.

Ithalunim (ih-thah-loo-nim): The choir of Lunes tied to the crescent moon; patron spirits of the Ithaeur. Also, the Oracle Choir.

Ralunim (rah-loo-nim): The choir of Lunes tied to the full moon; patron spirits of the Rahu. Also, the Fury Choir.

zur: Chiminage, an offering made to a spirit in order to curry its good will or appease its anger.

[Odin]

Jammer

Kann man sich auch vor der First Tongue als SL drücken?
Habe bei WtA auch so wenig wie möglich mit der sprache der Garou gearbeitet.

Oder würde das ein Teil des Spiels, makaber gesagt, "töten"

[Selganor [n/a]]

Hat der Developer doch schon geschrieben:

The thing about the First Tongue, though, is that it's largely optional. For people who want to use it a lot, it's there — but the only things for which you really are expected to use First Tongue terms instead of English (or whatever) are the stuff for which English doesn't have convenient terms for anyway, like form names.

[Odin]

Naja dann mache ich meinen Spielleiter, DEUS EX MACHINA, es wird norm weiter gesprochen jedoch die Charas reden in ihrer Fantasy Volkssprache.

( Selbst Geissel ) Sehr schwach ich weiß. Jedoch möchten meine Mitspieler etwas Spass haben ohne eine neue Sprache gelernt zu haben. ( Bezug auf die Garou Namensendungen, um Erfahrene Krieger zu ehren, dei schwer Auszusprechen und zu merken waren. )

 

[Selganor [n/a]]

Diese Woche - Auspices:

Moon Matters

This week we look at the auspices of werewolves, the phase of the moon under which they undergo the First Change. This moon sign grants a werewolf special abilities and affinities, as well as signifying the Forsaken’s special connection to Mother Luna. Every day this week, we’ll reveal one of the auspices as well as part of the werewolves’ story of when Mother Luna granted them this gift.

MONDAY JANUARY 10 UPDATE

When our ancestors slew Father Wolf so that a stronger hunter could take his place, they fell to fighting among themselves almost immediately. Each powerful chieftain or alpha vied for the right to inherit the full measure of Father Wolf’s strength and duties. Blood fell on the earth as the fighting grew fiercer, and Mother Luna wept to see it.

Nobody knows how long this lasted, but however long they fought one another instead of the enemies they claimed to oppose, it was too long. We might still be fighting even today, with the world suffering for it all the more, were it not for the descent of the Lunes.

Rahu (The Full Moon, The Warrior)

The Rahu is a howler at the full moon, a reflection of Luna’s warrior face. Rahu take the lead in war, be it quiet war against neighboring packs or open combat against their enemies. Rahu reflect every aspect of the warrior archetype. They are the ravening berserkers and the calculating generals. The two contrasting styles can even be found in the same werewolf. Forsaken warriors pass down lore of combat ranging from Caesar’s battle tactics in Gaul to up-to-the-minute tactical manuals stolen from elite armed forces.

Auspice Ability: Warrior’s Eye. Once per session, a Rahu can attempt to “read” a foe, determining who is the superior warrior. The player rolls Wits + Primal Urge, and success indicates that the werewolf can roughly tell whether the threat is stronger or weaker than he is. An exceptional success grants more understanding of the gap between the two. (“He’s much more powerful than me.”) The warrior’s eye takes into account only those abilities that might affect a direct fight. A werewolf might read a skilled vampire assassin as “weaker,” even though the vampire is much more deadly when it can choose the time of engagement.

[Selganor [n/a]]

Naechster Auspice

Why did Mother Luna intervene? We don't know. Nobody can know her mind. Some believe that she acted from benevolence, as a long-suffering but still loving mother. Others say it was self-interest: that we were simply the best choice to keep an eye on the world, and this was the best way to set us to that task. Still others claim that she was obeying some obscure ban of her own, that she walked on the earth only when permitted by some cryptic celestial alignment and that granting us our auspices was merely an afterthought. And some say she did not intervene at all — that the Lunes did not offer blessings, but rather were brought into submission. Nobody will ever know for sure, but such is the nature of our fickle, ever-changing mother.

Cahalith (The Gibbous Moon, The Visionary)

The Cahalith is a storyteller, vision-quester and lorekeeper among the People. If the gibbous moon is "pregnant," the Cahalith who reflect that moon are pregnant with ideas, emotions and creative energy. They are the visionaries of the Forsaken, frequently lost in reveries that echo the distant past or chasing faint glimpses of the future. As the moon waxes toward full, a Cahalith looks to the next night; as it wanes, she glances into the past. Cahalith also know many epic howls and histories.

Auspice Ability: Prophetic Dreams. Once per story, the player may ask the Storyteller for a dream of prophecy, providing some clue about the challenges facing the Cahalith. The Cahalith must sleep for at least four hours in order to dream of the future. The dream is always veiled in symbolism that the character must interpret. In addition, the Cahalith automatically gains one die to any Occult rolls made to interpret omens or solve occult riddles.

Und...schwupps...sind die Barden weg

[Selganor [n/a]]

Aller guten Dinge sind drei:

At the behest of Luna, Lunes from the five choirs descended. They told us that although Father Wolf's full power was too great to be held by any single being limited by flesh, each of us could inherit an equal share of his duties. They coaxed forth memories of Father Wolf's five roles — warrior, visionary, judge, wise man and stalker — and the magics that Father Wolf used in each of those roles. From these wisps of memory, the five lunar choirs taught each Uratha to adopt one of Father Wolf's five roles. Luna had seen the First Change of each of this generation of Uratha, and she saw into each werewolf's inner nature, so she knew which of Father Wolf's roles was most appropriate. She promised to give an obvious sign to future generations of Uratha, so that every werewolf would know what his role would be.

Elodoth (The Half Moon, The Walker Between)

Every werewolf's personality changes slightly over the course of the month, but Elodoth feel that ebb and flow more strongly than other auspices do. They take their role as the bridger of gaps very seriously and many spend half their time in each native form, experiment with sexual partners of either gender or otherwise deliberately choose to walk in two worlds. This ever-changing perspective gives Elodoth unique insight into the other auspices. As a result, Elodoth are trusted as judges and arbiters throughout the Forsaken territories and lead negotiations. They are also excellent diplomats where the fickle and hostile spirit world is concerned. Many Elodoth believe they understand Luna better than other Uratha do, so they're the ones most often nominated to stand in judgment over violations of the Oath of the Moon, Luna's sacred law.

Auspice Ability: Spirit Envoy. An Elodoth automatically gains two dice to any Empathy, Expression, Persuasion or Politics roll made to negotiate with spirits. This bonus does not apply to rolls made to threaten or bully spirits. The Elodoth is expected to offer the proper words and appeasement, demonstrating his ability to perceive the issue from the spirit's side as well.

[Selganor [n/a]]

Every one of us — save the heretics who call themselves "pure" — experiences his First Change under Luna's watchful eye. The First Change is not only a moment of terrible transformation, but a brief flicker of communion with the lunar choir attuned to the night's moon phase. Those born with the souls of warriors and killers reach their full potential under the full moon, while those with the fortitude to face the maddening trials of the spirit world come into their own while the crescent moon shines.

Ithaeur (The Crescent Moon, The Spirit Master)

The children of the crescent moon are the occultists of the Forsaken, those who learn the secrets of mastery over the spirits. Where an Elodoth sways a spirit with sophisticated reasoning that appeals to its very nature, an Ithaeur decisively binds it through magic or strikes at its ban. Ithaeur cannot walk away from the shadowy terrors of the Shadow Realm, and they strive to master those spirits who would as soon destroy an Uratha as bandy words with it.

Auspice Ability: Ritual Master. Ithaeur purchase the Rituals trait and rites at reduced experience cost.

Mal sehen ob ich den 5. Auspice auch noch posten kann ohne dass jemand was sagt

[Selganor [n/a]]

Now the People have the tools and the encouragement to walk the Gauntlet as Father Wolf walked the Border Marches. Luna’s intercession and blessing has kindled a new hope that the Uratha will not always be Forsaken.

Irraka (The New Moon, The Stalker)

When Luna cannot be seen at all, then the Irraka hunt. The Irraka are the scouts and stalkers, the cunning hunters who elude the worst threats only to strike at those threats’ vulnerable spots from behind. They ply their wits socially as well, testing the dedication of other Forsaken to their packs, their tribes and the Oath of the Moon. The Irraka are forever on the boundary, sometimes stalking the borders of their pack’s territory, sometimes wandering the boundaries between Uratha and human society.

Auspice Ability: Pathfinder’s Sense. As scouts for the Forsaken, the Irraka have an easier time recognizing spirit influence. Irraka receive two bonus dice on the roll to look from one world to the next or to perceive ephemeral spirits or on the roll to determine in which direction a locus lies while within its area of influence.

Next Week: Gifts, You Got Me Gifts! — Next week we take a look at the Gifts of the Uratha.

[Mc666Beth]

Sie haben den Charakterbogen veröffentlicht. Das war das Montagsupdate. 

[1of3]

Hmmm. War ja ganz interessant:

- Wolfies haben immer noch persönliche Totems oder Rudeltotems.
- Geister haben immer noch Numina.

- Es gibt, wie vermutet, die fünf Rufkategorien, wobei jeweils eine von jedem Stamm und jedem Vorzeichen bevorzugt wird. Ruf hängt wohl auch direkt mit Gaben zusammen.

[Mc666Beth]

Ich bin mal gespannt wie sich primal urge im Spiel auswirkt.

[Selganor [n/a]]

Wohl so wie die Blood Potency bei den Vampiren